Mar 29, 2006 (From the CalCars-News archive)
Toyota has announced it intends to cut by 50% the premium paid for hybrid cars. It looks like it's on its way with the new Camry. Posters at Greeen Car Congress (excerpts below) conclude that it's pretty hard to do an apples-to-apples comparison, but the hybrid seems comparable to a mid-range Toyota, therefore only a few thousand dollars more, which would certainly get taken care of by the tax credit and gasoline savings.... GCC comments followed by a Reuters story comparing Camry pricing to Honda Accord hybrid pricing, followed by Toyota's official press release.
Green Car Congress Toyota Announces Pricing for the Camry Hybrid 27 March 2006
Toyota's new Camry Hybrid (earlier post) will roll into showrooms in May with a base MSRP of $25,900. The new non-hybrid versions of the all-new 2007 Camry range from a base MSRP of $18,270 for the four-cylinder manual model to a base MSRP of $27,520 for the V6 XLE model. Toyota has revised downward its preliminary estimated fuel economy ratings for the hybrid to 40 mpg US in the city, 38 mpg US on the highway and 39 mpg US in combined driving. At the unveiling of the car in January, Toyota had issued estimated ratings of 43 mpg US city, 37 mpg US highway and 40 mpg US combined. The Camry Hybrid is expected to be certified as an Advanced Technology Partial Zero Emissions Vehicle (AT-PZEV), just one of a handful of cars to meet the strict AT-PZEV standard.
Comments -- consolidated--line space indicates a new poster (go to original URL to see who said what)
That's a pretty steep premium over the base 4-banger.
What's the difference in features? It's still cheaper than the base V-6 by almost $2K.
It is a steep premium if it had the same equipment level. There are several features on it that are above the standard 4 cylinder Camry (not to mention the additional fuel economy and available power). Some of the items are not even available as an option on the base 4 cylinder model.
Once they stop charging a premium over MSRP for these, this will be my next car.
"What's the difference in features? It's still cheaper than the base V-6 by almost $2K." Actually, that's for the primo XLE model. You can get an LE with a 6 for $23,040 -- about $4,500 less than the hybrid 4-banger. This isn't apples-to-apples, as Patrick mentioned, as the trim levels are obviously different. I sure would appreciate it if the manufacturers would simply make hyrbid an option with a price on it, so we wouldn't have to estimate it.
There is a more than $7,000 price difference between the hybrid and the manual 4. If the manual 4 gets a real world 25 mpg, it will use 8000 gal of gas over a 200,000 mile life time. If the hybrid gets 35 real world, you will save about 2,300 gal of gas, which is almost worth it if gas is more than $3/gal. YMMV.
Will the trends for hybrids posted here continue? Has the green market saturated? Hybrids don't pay, on purely economic basis. Cars are being held a little longer, as posted here, but not to 200K. Buy a Yaris, Aveo or Spectra or somesuch if you want an economical, efficient option.
It is amazing to see that you equate only the saving in gas when considering a hybrid. Remember you will get a tax rebate which is not included in your equation. You will have to check with your state to see what it is. But the most important part of hybrid equation is the carbon footprint improvement you will leave on the environment. Perhaps you don't care but that alone should be incentive enough. It is more than just dollars!
I never did get my thank you note from Steve Jobs for buying that $2300 Mac SE 20 (with a 20MB HD) back in 1987 that is now a doorstop. Or that Mac g3 lombard powerbook with a blazing 266MhZ processor. It's still an early adopter situation. Folks like us are helping to build the hybrid market for future generations. I did it for computers. Someday no one will bother to put a hybrid badge on the car because it will be like ABS, and will cost a lot less than it does now. Is the world any better for all those computer I bought? It certainly is for the Prius I bought and I hope someday soon to upgrade to the next level in technology.
Good for you. The Camry is not much more than the Prius and less, depending upon the feature set. I, personnaly, am happy with my Prius and can't see any reason to go for the Camry. Others, who wouldn't buy a Prius, may see it differently. Let's hope so, if this gets them out of a car with worse gas mileage. Hope, like others, that the hybrid setup merely becomes an option. Right now, though, I guess Toyota perceives that as a more expensive, complicated way to go. One important issue is that the HSD is a good gateway to a plug in. Still hoping and waiting that Toyota mass produces an upgrade for about $5,000. According to a post I read in EV world, the U.S. electric baseload could take care of converting 10% of our fleet to PHEV. So, the net reduction in GHG for the first 10% would be roughly equal to the vehicles replaced. That should hold us for awhile before we would have to think about increasing capacity due to electric conversion.
I'm so sick of people comparing a striped down base model to a top of the line fully loaded hybrid model and saying that hybrids are $8,000 more expensive yada yada yada. People actually try to compare my Civic Hybrid against a Civic DX, the DX doesn't even have A/C, I think only 2 speakers, it's ****ing ridiculous. Take a fully loaded camry 4 cylinder and compare it against it's fully loaded camry hybrid, THAT'S your price difference!
If you check over at Toyota.com you'll find the Camry Hybrid is loaded. It comes in between the SE V6 which has fewer standard features and the fully loaded XLE V6 in price so the math works quite well here. Also not only is is much cheaper than the Accord hybrid they retained the 60/40 folding seat for much greater utility.
Loaded 4cyl 24city/33highway is $24,425 for a difference of $1475. Toss in the tax breaks and it would be a wash. But wait there's more (sorry Autoweek :-) ), the hybrid has more power and is rated at 16MPG better in the city and 5MPG better on the highway.
Another thing about the CAMRY Hybrid. It has the VDIM system which is NOT available even on the V6. I own a Highlander Hybrid and have experienced what the VDIM can do. It is a very sophisticated fly-by-wire safety system. It is unclear if any car out there offers anything close except for a $65K Mercedes.
What may happen is that the hybrid Camry competes with the V6 and not the 4 banger. Rated Hp for the Hybrid is nearly the same as the 2005 V6 (approx 200). Hopefully people will now see the equation a bit differently. You can achieve near V6 aceleration out of a vehicle getting 38 MPG. Payback times wil be considerably shorter comparing the V6 to the hybrid. If we see a trend of individuals replacing V6's with hybrids, that could really revolutionize the hybrid industry IMHO.
I completely agree. The appropriate comparison in terms of the drivetrain is the one that yields the closest match for vehicle performance. Hybridization is a downsizing concept, ergo you *should* be getting V6 performance out of an I4H, at least at low to medium speeds. Depending on the layout of the electric motors, you may or may not achieve parity in acceleration at high speeds. Only then does it make sense to compare other vehicle features and play the parlor game of guessing the premium for the hybrid components.
At 29 MPG, Camry will consume 150,000 (miles) / 29 = 5,172 gallons. At 39 MPG, Camry hybrid consumes 150,000 / 39 = 3,846 gallons. Differnce of 1,326 gallons •$2.4/ gallon = 3,183 savings. Ofcourse Camry Hybrid will have tons of extra feature + very smooth ride. Expect the demand to shoot up.
Toyota prices Camry hybrid below Honda model Tue Mar 28, 2006 1:39 AM ET
TOKYO (Reuters) - Toyota Motor Corp. has priced its new Camry hybrid -- a gasoline-electric version of America's most popular car -- at $25,900, around $5,000 cheaper than rival Honda Motor Co.'s Accord hybrid.
A direct comparison is difficult because the cars have different engine sizes and standard features, but the gasoline version of the Camry and Accord sedans compete in the same segment.
Both Japanese auto makers, which lead the industry in the advanced fuel-efficient powertrain, are aiming to reduce the cost of hybrid systems to limit the premium consumers pay to around $2,000.
A comparable version of the gasoline-only Camry sells for $20,500.
The 2007 model year Camry hybrid has a 2.4-liter four-cylinder engine yielding 187 horsepower combined with the electric motor. The 2006 Accord hybrid, which starts at $30,990, is more powerful, producing a combined 253 hp with its 3.0-liter V6 engine.
The Japan-built Camry hybrid goes on sale in the United States in May, and will be followed by a local version scheduled to be produced in Kentucky from October. Toyota has targeted sales of about 30,000 Camry hybrids this year.
Press Release Source: Toyota Motor Sales, U.S.A., Inc. Toyota Announces Prices for All-New 2007 Camry Hybrid Monday March 27, 3:00 pm ET
TORRANCE, Calif., March 27 /PRNewswire/ -- Toyota Motor Sales (TMS), U.S.A., Inc., announced manufacturer's suggested retail prices (MSRP) today for the all-new and much-anticipated 2007 Camry Hybrid.
The Toyota Camry, the best-selling car in America four years running and for eight of the past nine years, is completely new for 2007. The world-class sedan not only redefines global standards for comfort, performance and design, but also is available, for the first time, with Toyota's Hybrid Synergy Drive.
Toyota extends its hybrid leadership by making its exclusive Hybrid Synergy Drive available in the 2007 Camry. The Hybrid Synergy Drive System consists of gas and electric power sources that are complementary and produce a combined 187 horsepower. This system varies power between gas and electric, or both, as needed.
The first half of this system consists of a 2.4-liter four-cylinder Atkinson-cycle engine that generates 147 hp and is coupled to a continuously variable transmission. The second half of the Hybrid Synergy Drive equation consists of a small, high torque electric motor that produces 40 horsepower, an ultra-small inverter with a specially designed compact battery and a transaxle to provide the economy and seamless performance hybrid drivers seek.
Additionally, the Camry Hybrid is equipped with an "ECO" button that limits energy consumption by the Heating Ventilating Air Conditioning (HVAC) system and under certain conditions can help improve fuel economy.
Camry Hybrid comes with a long list of standard features. These include a tire-pressure monitor system, halogen headlamps with automatic on/off, a premium JBL audio system with an audio auxiliary jack and Bluetooth® technology, cruise control, a tilt and telescopic steering wheel, an eight-way-adjustable power driver's seat, a 60/40 split fold-down rear seat, 16-inch aluminum wheels, heated outside rear-view mirrors, dual-zone automatic climate control heating and air conditioning with a Plasmacluster(TM) ionizer, micro dust and pollen filter and much more. The Plasmacluster(TM) ionizer helps reduce airborne mold spores, microbes, fungi, odor, germs and bacteria inside the passenger cabin.
Because there are situations in daily driving in which the gas engine in a Toyota hybrid is completely shut down, air-conditioning and power-steering systems are driven electrically, rather than by the engine. This ensures these features will continue to operate, whatever the status of the Camry Hybrid's drive system.
The Camry Hybrid with Hybrid Synergy Drive will yield exceptional fuel efficiency with preliminary estimated ratings of 40 mpg in the city and 38 mpg on the highway and 39 mpg in combined driving. Additionally, Camry Hybrid is expected to be certified as an Advanced Technology Partial Zero Emissions Vehicle (AT-PZEV), just one of a handful of cars to meet the strict AT-PZEV standard.
The all-new Camry Hybrid will have a base MSRP of $25,900. The new Camry Hybrid will reach Toyota dealers this May.